On a recent American Airlines flight from Los Angeles to Toronto, I chose to sit in row 16 of the 737-800MCE series aircraft because (like in row 17, as well) the middle seat is blocked on each side. The airline has made a habit of blocking out four seats like this so they can pay one less flight attendant (here’s a deeper explanation). I usually choose one of the exit rows—which are directly in front—but because these planes have been flying 100% full recently and the seats are so tight (or I’m just getting bigger), I decided that having more space next to me was more important than having it in front of me. And so I booked row 16 to check things out.
Little did I know that these seats come with pretty much no legroom, and so I knew that when the passenger in front of me reclined I wouldn’t be able to do work on my laptop. So I offered the passenger in front of me a free Gogo session (I work with them a lot and they give me a handful of free Gogo passes that I usually give to friends and flight attendants).
All I did was tap him on his shoulder and said, “Excuse me, but is there anyway you can let me know when you recline since I’ll be working on my computer?” He said it was no problem. I then said I’d even make him a deal: “If you don’t recline, I’ll give you a free Gogo inflight Wi-Fi pass”—and he said, “done deal.” And since he was so nice about it, I gave one to his girlfriend as well. It was a win-win for everyone and made row 16 a great choice.
Would you take that deal? I posted the question on my personal Facebook page (here’s my work Facebook page) and most said they would. But there a few who said, “No way, Jose!” as well, so I want to hear even more thoughts. Let me know what you would do, and what it would take for you to agree not to recline your seat in the comments below.
UPDATED on September 2, 2014: In the past eight days there’ve been three U.S. flights that had to make unscheduled landings after passengers got into fights over the ability to recline their seats. The first one was started by a passenger using Knee Defender but I don’t recommend getting this contraption.
That’s a nice way to do it.
It’s all case by case. Sometimes, there is a need to recline, and on a long flight, people should have expectations that the person in front is going to recline. That’s just the way it is. People shouldn’t have expectations that they should get luxury flying in coach. That would make it more expensive, so people would complain about that. They want cheap airfare, and this is how to get it, its called sacrificing luxury of being able to stretch out, or have additonal space including that of being leaned into from in front. If you want such luxury, you have to pay for it, straight out, and pay for business or first class. You have to “expect” that sitting in coach is not going to be comfortable. You get what you pay for. However, that doesn’t mean we can’t be more considerate. Also, its the airline’s fault, in that they should have special sections for taller people. Just because someone is taller isn’t his fault, and that person might not be able to afford first class/business. So the airlines should figure it out and make it comfortable for those people also. That being said, since the airline is at fault, once we understand that the airline has chosen to NOT take care of their taller flyers, sometimes it is merely something people can try to help alleviate the anguish faced by the taller person being shoved into tight quarters, where their legs are already cramped, and they are in pain already. It’s not the fault or the problem of the person in front, but they could give a little extra consideration in light that the airline didn’t do what they should have done by giving the taller people larger space. Like did they think of that, like, hey, airlines, maybe you should think of these types of things
Excellent response.Thank you!
It is just as true that the recliner shouldn’t have expectations of getting luxury flying in coach by maximizing his own comfort at the expense of the person behind him. Bottom line is don’t impede a fellow passenger’s access to the aisle no matter how long the flight may be. In case of an emergency or simply a need to use the bathroom, you should NEVER be required to crawl over your seat mate to get to the aisle. Those who insist on reclining to that extent are selfish and not to be indulged.
great reply! That’s what the airlines will do and make it their rationalle to restrict reclining altogether!
Exactly! It’s not only a comfort issue, but a safety one. With so little space, you make it extra difficult for someone to get out of their seat. I was on a flight once where I didn’t feel well, and I passed out in my seat. It’s not the first time in my life that it’s happened, and I knew that if I could put my head to my knees, I could avoid it. But with or without someone reclining in my face, I couldn’t do it. So I fainted. Airline design is already unsafe… let’s not make it worse. How would you feel if there was an emergency, and the person behind you died because they couldn’t get out of their seat fast enough? Maybe it’s extreme, but really, in an emergency when a few seconds could mean the difference between escaping or not…. are you going to remember to put your seatback forward?
I am 60 years old and 6ft 3in tall. I don’t “expect” any consideration other than the person in front to recline slowly. Sure I am cramped. I knew that when I booked my ticktet because the plane is fitted with recline seats that I expect many people would like to use. Discomfort even on long flights is the price I have made a conscious decision to pay is to put up with in order to save the most money. If extra room is made for the taller person the airline would need to recoup the lost seat revenue by either charging me more (which I don’t want) or charging everyone a little extra (which isn’t fair and I’m sure others don’t want). I also don’t buy into the no room crap, I can place my knees in a position to make it difficult for the person in front to recline but I can also sit with them in a way where they can. I choose the second option because they are entitled to recline. Never had an issue in many many (uncomfortable) flights.
those are some valid comments, woody, but really, if you’re 6’8″ or taller, which may seem like only half a dozen inches, it’s so insanely uncomfortable, in fact, almost inhumane, and sometimes, almost impossible There simply has to be a good solution, but I agree, you shouldn’t be made to charge more to give the taller people more room, but then again, maybe you should. Maybe they should even out the playing table and give less room to the short people to make up for the tall people’s extra room. Shouldn’t everyone be as comfortable as “manageable” while trying to accomodate each and every human being?
I rarely travel on a plane for less that a 12-18 hour flight. The seats are extremely uncomfortable to begin with and the idea of not reclining to some small degree is horrific. I never recline completely, only enough to straighten out my spine and not have my chin on my chest. I am also fully aware of the person behind me. At the same time I find it completely appropriate and expected that the person in front should do the same. Using common sense is the key, not overreaction to every single nitpicking thing one becomes aware of.
I always need to recline because of my back on any flight longer than an hour, otherwise I’ll be in a lot of pain by the end of the flight due to a problem with my back. Of course, I always look back and check with the passenger behind me first. If someone objects, I explain and offer to switch seats with them. It’s hard to understand why it is such a problem for people to simply recline if the person in front of them does. It’s not like economy class seats go back so far that it would make it difficult to read or use a computer. Well, using a laptop is a little challenging in economy in any circumstances, but I don’t find that reclining makes it any worse. I can manage either activity with the seats reclined. I have, incidentally, seen several polls where the majority of passengers want to be able to recline. And, of course, almost everyone does on long-haul flights with the possible exception of a few souls who are stuck in the belief that reclining the seat is rude under all circumstances. I think it would be a good idea for airlines to keep a section aside for the non-recliners, filling it up from front to back. Then people could ask specifically for those seats, and it would be their own fault if they failed to do so.
Theyre gonna stop the seats from reclining pretty soon. Two things, one, 90% of our society is selfish pigs, so no one thinks of others, and therefore, since people can’t figure it out, the airlines will simply do what needs to be done. They won’t give us more space, cause more space is too expensive and people don’t want to pay for it. They want cheap seats, yet expect the luxuries (recline their seat or have space remaining if the person in front reclines theirs). As far as the laptops go, the people complaining about their laptops, well, they have business section with extra room, buy that if you want to use your laptop. But there are people six foot four and over with long legs aand they cant even fit in their seats to begin with, you wouldn’t want your knees crushed would you. One person had it right, he didn’t have all these expectations of comfort, and expected “you get what you pay for” which in this case, the cattle class, you get discomfort, so expect it, and stop whining. But people need to think about each other, and they don’t, so we’re all basically screwed, blame ourselves
I keep reading about how people used to have manners or how is you have manners you wouldn’t recline. People have always reclined from the day reclining seats were introduced on planes and in those days (which even the anti recline lobby bring up) people used to have manners. So it is a fact as far as I am concerned that it is only lately that there are people who now complain about people reclining. Pretty sure that proves who the self entitled tools are.
People may have reclined from day one. People have been pigs since day one. That hasn’t changed. The fact people are complaining more now is that they have a forum to complain on. They didn’t before the internet allowed them to do so, so others like you can become more “aware” since you are obviously yet another pig. Nobody’s entitled to jack shit, but you , being the pig you are, think you are entitled to anything you want. It’s the basic “me, me. me attitude”. The “I don’t care about you” attitude you obviously have. Like, you get in your car, and you recline the seat back because you want to sleep, even though your mom is behind you and you crush her knees, and you just say, “screw you, mom, my seat reclines, I can do what I want”. Naw you don’t do that to your mom, do you? But you’ll do it to a stranger. Because you are a pig.
I’ve never heard of knee defenders before and they look like scary stuff. A clear way to cause conflict in what can already be a stressful situation for many.
Let’s face it, if you are flying economy/coach then space is going to be limited. Nobody likes the seat in front of them reclining into your face and I accept that it is difficult to work on a computer. What if the person in front of you faces a similar scenario and the seat in front ot them reclines? Sometimes I feel the only way I can get breathing space from the reclined seat in front is reclining mine!
I do hate it though when the person in front immediately reclines their seat as soon as they board and leaves it like that for the duration of the flight. 100% selfish.
Not sure I could be bribed in this way, but what you propose sounds interesting. I wonder how many of us flyers would have these complimentary wifi cards on hand to call upon.
I think the length of the flight is also a factor. If it is a 1 hour flight then no problem. A 3-4 hour flight then people may well want to “relax”.
Shocking to hear of the 3 flights being stopped because of arguments over reclining seats. It just shows how little room we really have in the cabin.
No it just shows how little tolerance some people have.
I’m 6ft 3. Try this thought process.
I flying cattle because it’s cheap.
I buy the cheap ticket knowing before hand that I WILL be uncomfortable and I have the expectation that the person in front WILL recline.
I know that I may not be able to use my laptop because that is not an entitlement of the cheap fare.
If/when the person in front reclines I am uncomfortable but UNDERSTAND that this is how it is because the seat features a recline mechanism.
I would only ask them or ask the attendant to ask them to sit up if they were still reclined at meal times.
That is called tolerance.
If you want to guarantee that you can work or be comfortable PAY for the privilege.
If something like a person in front of you reclining causes you to become angry or aggressive you need help.
Hey Kendal. How is it that everything you agree to is the right thing to do and viva versa. And you harp on about others with a me me me attitude.
Why wouldn’t I agree on the right thing to do?
if I pay for a seat that reclines and you deny me that function then you are the selfish person. and I suspect you would also be in breach of the airlines t&c for interfering with aircraft normal operation .
you ask everyone else to be considerate but you fail to be considerate to them
Who has the most need for the space, is what I’d like to ask you? Many many people are able to survive their flight by stuffing pillows behind their back, or doing nothing at all, while still allowing the person behind them to keep their kneecaps/work on their computer/watch a movie that’s not 5 inches in front of their face/reach their belongings stored under your seat/exit their row when necessary. By just doing something because you CAN, and not because it’s absolutely necessary and there’s no alternative… that’s being selfish. Of course I can be more comfortable by reclining my seat. But I choose, in the spirit of community, to stick pillows, blankets, and my clothing (I lost 3 sweaters this way by forgetting them once…) in the small of my back to create a more comfortable seating position for myself, while respecting the space of the person behind me. Just because you CAN do something, doesn’t mean you should, especially if you are able to be kind to someone by NOT doing it.
I agree with you. That Rich is just yet another dick head who only thinks of himself, but that’s how it is in this society, most people are dick heads like Rich, thinking of themselves. Its such an obvious argument that isn’t about who deserves the space, both people obviously deserve it given that it’s the nature of the beast, but Rich is just inclined to say me me me.
I never knew that it affected people with laptops. I see that now. They should include something in their announcements in the beginning of the flight on how seat reclining should be handled, and educate everyone that its disturbing to tall people and people with laptops if you recline. I wonder if anyone ever thought to consider that the people who recline just simply don’t know they are bothering anyone. You normally can’t see behind you, and you don’t see who sits behind you when you are sitting down initially, unless they are already there and you can see they are a giant.
That woman who threw the drink is lucky that she didn’t receive a fist in the face. If she had dowsed me and my laptop I would have hit her and I would acquit anyone who hit her in the same circumstances if I were on that jury. The pilot made an asinine decision to divert the flight and every other passenger on that flight should sue the airline for the inconvenience caused them by the pilot’s poor decision making skills. Your concept of charging the assaulted passenger for the airline’s time is also asinine. The pilot’s decision to divert is almost as stupid and heinous as the SouthWest gate agent in Denver who tried to hide her shitty customer service skills by intimidating a father in front of his children to delete his tweet about her stupidity.. She should have been publicly reprimanded for her actions and I will never fly SouthWest again, who used to be my regular airline, unless that happens. Although I’m sure the Union would never let it happen. The idiot gate agent didn’t need to be fired but she did need to be reprimanded publicly.
That woman is lucky she didn’t get a fist in her face in response to her throwing a drink, like a spoiled two year old. I would have struck her if she dowsed me and my laptop and I would have acquitted anyone who hit that woman in the exact same circumstances if i were on that jury. The airline acted moronically by diverting the flight. That was almost as stupid a move as the idiot at the gate for SouthWest who tried to hide her incredibly bad customer service by intimidating the father with his children in Denver a couple of months ago. Every passenger on that diverted flight should sue the airline for delaying and inconveniencing them through the pilot’s asinine decision.
In an email to CNN, ‘Johnny Jet’ says, “Beach should feel terrible. That diversion cost United Airlines about $6,000 per hour, he says.” I don’t think he should feel bad at all! If the airlines want to save money by decreasing leg room to the point that someone is actually laying in my lap, I have NO sympathy for the airline!!!
So, first of all sorry if this was addressed above–since there’s been 3 incidents recently I’ve read many back and forth comment sections and I just didn’t want to read all the way through this one as well. But to my point–
Isn’t it a bit spurious to offer this as an example to all in how to ‘solve’ this clearly divisive issue? Firstly you didn’t give up anything of value to you (in fact it was given to you as a freebie). Secondly you are in a special position that you have these coupons (almost nobody does). And thirdly, sometimes the person in front is amenable to a trade, but probably more of the time (given polling/surveys I’ve read) the person isn’t.
To summarize, you seem like the guy who says, ‘Middle East peace is easy, they just need to talk to each other!’
Thanks for the feedback. The point of the story was that you could offer to buy their WiFi, drink(s) or meal. I guess I should’ve made that more clear.
I am 6’0 tall. When the person in front of me reclines, I was able to do everything I could before the person reclined.
When a seat reclines in front of a person 6’3″ or 6’4″ and the person stretches their legs does the seat still hit their legs?
I hope the incidents continue and more flights get diverted. Oh, you don’t agree?? How else do you plan to get the greedy airlines’ attention to make changes?
In my opinion, more than a recliner being annoying is the person in the rear of my seat who grabs and pulls my seat back to get up especially during overnight flights when I may be asleep. If that doesn’t ‘t awaken me, pulling my hair during the “grab” in an effort to pull him/ herself up really will. Also talking really loud during “sleep” time is also offensive. Both things have happened to us during overnight flights and by the same man.
There will never be a correct answer for this. The airlines take more and more legroom away in the name of profits… There will always be people who put their own comfort ahead of others… There will always be people considerate of others. At some point, after a few more flight diversions caused by fights, the airlines will either limit or render the reclining ability inoperable. It costs airlines way more to divert a flight than have it continue on its destined route. As ever, when it comes to money, you can always count on the airlines to make the profitable choice. For them. Enjoy your reclining while you can, egoists!
Btw, 6’2″, and NEVER recline unless there’s empty seat behind.
Your solutions are band aid suggestions. The problem is greed and more concern for money than people who are now treated as sardines. And the greed/money factors are not just the fault of airlines but of people. We have lost respect for ourselves and others. Oh! yes we talk a good story but our actions tell the opposite.
I doubt the airlines are making some astronomical profit. the margin is usually 5 to 10%. Now that may well be because of their marketting/sales strategy, as well as pricing, but they aren’t making so much profit. I’m not saying they aren’t stupid though, and over pricing because their stupidity. But a lot more thought has to go into this. I agree its all about the general greed of people, but part of it is stupidity too. Also, most people are dicks.
Why should we have to pay extortion to protect the space that is already ours? Serial recliners,are only interested in self gratification. I can live with the person in front of me reclining a notch or two. Any more then that is a declaration of war. I’ll try the redirected cold air strategy. Hmm. I feel a sneeze coming on.